In the last couple of weeks, I've had not one, not two but three discussions on FB that wound up becoming explosive. And get this- things that I said totally ticked off other people. And they said things that made me angry in return. Me, the girl who never spoke in high school and who tries oh oh so hard not to cause waves. I typically find myself being the peacemaker, bridging gaps between others- even in my own family.
I narrowed down the commonality between these three occurances:
People of the male persuasion commenting on Girl World topics that they know nothing about.
Case #1:
A girl that I know made a post about modesty. Since I like to discuss this topic, I commented. She liked my comment. But uh oh, something I said upset one of her guy friends. He didn't like that I felt that us women were taught to be gatekeepers. It's a common complaint in church Girl World. Do I feel that guys are capable of controlling themselves? Yes. Is everyone responsible for their own actions? Yes. But a lot of church literature would have you believe otherwise in modesty/dating situations. When I come across items of that nature in YW manuals, I make it very clear that we're all responsible for our own actions.
Well this guy went from 0 to 60 very quickly. Instead of allowing me to have my opinion and then stating his (you know, how discussions usually work), I was Wrong. Wrong Wrong Wrong. Nothing I said calmed him down (now keep in mind that I really said nothing controversial or argumentative in this whole discussion, he just chose to take offense at everything), he just got madder and madder. By the end I was being yelled at about how guys in YM are drilled in every lesson to respect women.
Think about that last sentence for a second. I laughed too.
While I believe that modesty applies to both men and women, in this instance it was us girls discussing our world and how it's taught. Something that this guy was never going to understand- but he jumped right in despite that. Instead of yelling at me about what YM are taught, it would have been better to try and explain to us what the YM program is like. I honestly would have liked to hear about things from his perspective. But please allow us to have ours.
Case #2:
Same friend posts video about the excessive use of Photoshop in magazines and advertisements. I made comments about it- it's getting a little scary how plastic and alien the women in our advertisements are becoming. And then I'm pretty sure the same guy -hold your shock and awe- makes comments where he makes leaps and bounds with statistics (and even he said that the logic was probably faulty). He goes on to have opinions about tanning and makeup. I chose not to say anything further for fear of setting this guy off again. But as I observed this discussion, it comes out that he didn't know what makeup is really used for. He thought it was to make skin darker- he had to be educated that, no, most makeup is about evening out the skin color that you already have and that its often difficult to find that foundation that matches perfectly.
Yes, Photoshop is used in advertising for men and whatnot, but the majority of it's use is in women's magazines and advertising directed at women. The whole issue was about Photoshop causing unrealistic standards of beauty and women going insane trying to achieve them. I didn't care that a guy commented here, but for the love of Pete if you are going to rant and rave about makeup then can you please know what it's really used for???
Is it too much to ask that you actually know something about what you are talking about in a discussion???
Case #3:
This guy I know is engaged. He posts a photo of a lovely wedding dress as an idea for his fiance. Out of the ordinary, but hey. Then a problem arises- the dress has short sleeves and whatever will she do to get the long sleeves needed to marry in the temple? Myself and another girl lay out all the options- and really this isn't a huge problem to overcome. But no, our answers weren't good enough. Cause you know, as girls, we know nothing about girl sleeves. Or wedding dresses. Or temple ceremonies. They go on and on trying to solve a problem that wasn't real in the first place and that was just solved for them.
And oh yeah, it's up to this girl to solve this problem for herself. Not them.
I kid you not, some other guy devised that long sleeves attached with Velcro would work. Velcro! On a wedding dress! And one guy found long sleeved temple jackets that were so lovely- I'm sure all the grandmas wear them these days. No! And then Velcro Boy was still devising sleeves- and the image he posted was of a long sleeved Lycra athletic shirt! Cause that's going to look good with satin and lace.
Somewhere in there I said "It's so much fun discussing wedding dresses with you guys" which is what I meant. I wasn't being snarky. It's just that I don't find myself often having discussions about bridalwear with those possessing Y chromosomes. I guess I should have rephrased it so that you couldn't possibly mistake it for sarcasm, but oh well. Well Velcro Boy took offense at that (and probably also that I very politely poo-pooed his Velcro idea) and I found myself backpeddling and explaining that I didn't mean anything by it. I hated that I had to be the one to backpeddle, but I did it to, you know, be the peacemaker.
But what incensed me is what came next- "Thanks, that's more respectful." And then continued to devise sleeves attached with Rube Goldberg machines.
Well now I'm the one who wants an apology! Um, excuse me? You're the ones having a conversation about wedding dresses and I'm the one who has to be respectful? What!??
I really didn't like feeling like a sub-servant girl in that conversation. It was probably a good thing that that's the point when the discussion was taken down for good. I really started to feel like yelling.
So here we have guys having a conversation about topics that they know nothing about- women's fashion, the construction of sleeves and oh yeah wedding dresses. And us girls were made to feel like we didn't belong in this conversation. Um, what?
Hey dudes. I have something to offer to this conversation. Here's why you should um, believe me, and stop devising sleeves that won't work:
1) I've been designing clothes since my teens. I almost went to a fashion design college.
2) I've been to a ton of weddings and receptions. Seen all the options and have seen what works- and what doesn't!
3) I've worn formal dresses. With sleeves. I wear lots of sleeves.
4) I do a lot of sewing. I know what's going to work and what's not. I know how to attach pieces of cloth to one another.
5) AND OH YEAH I'M A GIRL!
Look, I'm all for discussions on FB but can we let people have their opinions, not get offended so easily and talk about things we actually know about? The equivalent would be me bombing in on discussions about sports and rap music and men's swimwear- things I know nothing about. I try really hard to offer opinions on matters that I *actually* know about- and it takes a lot for me to get mad. Is it too much to ask that in others?
And it's not just me having issues with guys butting in on conversations that they don't belong in- my girlfriend had a status about going to a baby shower and the comments that followed morphed into the Jerry Springer show. Everything was great until some guy made a comment. And then all heck broke out. Namecalling ensued between commenters. My friend's honor was "defended" (it didn't need to be). This guy had no idea about the intricacies of female relationships (why do women go to baby showers when they don't want to?) or the rituals of baby showers, but felt the need to comment anyhow. I don't think he'll be making that mistake anytime soon.
I'm about ready to make a "No Boys Allowed" sign for my fort. I'm tired of arguing and backpeddling.
If you think I'm irritated now, you should be thankful that I took a few days to cool off before writing this post- just think what that one would have been like!
Guys, we love you, but can you just leave Girl World to us girls? Or if you do come on in, please don't meddle. Thanks. I appreciate it.
Sincerely,
Liz
I guess I should like the fact that I have opinions and stir up trouble- I've come a long way, baby.
Trying not to manbash here but vent and create awareness....I'll bash on women next time to make things more fair ;)
